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Muliciber
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PostSubject: Character Alignment   Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:31 am

So my all time biggest complaint/ frustration with OB64 is managing character alignment. It seemed like no matter what I did they always ended up lawful, so that without the abuse of the 255 item Urn of Chaos I was limited in my units.

I never really figured out what made them lawful. Nor have I ever gotten a real explanation to it.

I understand a unit will try to equalize alignment, so that putting a lawful character in a chaotic unit would drop him to chaotic over time and vice versa. Only when I'd try it they seemed to stay lawful and the chaotics joined him.

I heard that over leveling and basically picking on weaker guys makes you more chaotic, but not only does that seem pointless it also never seemed to work. Attacking lawful units will also lower it supposedly, again no noticeable difference.

Any ideas as to whats going on?
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manikinator
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:42 pm

Muliciber wrote:
So my all time biggest complaint/ frustration with OB64 is managing character alignment. It seemed like no matter what I did they always ended up lawful, so that without the abuse of the 255 item Urn of Chaos I was limited in my units.

I never really figured out what made them lawful. Nor have I ever gotten a real explanation to it.

I understand a unit will try to equalize alignment, so that putting a lawful character in a chaotic unit would drop him to chaotic over time and vice versa. Only when I'd try it they seemed to stay lawful and the chaotics joined him.

I heard that over leveling and basically picking on weaker guys makes you more chaotic, but not only does that seem pointless it also never seemed to work. Attacking lawful units will also lower it supposedly, again no noticeable difference.

Any ideas as to whats going on?
If you kill a chaotic unit, your unit goes up in alignment. If you kill a lawful unit, you go down in alignment. It's good to kill bad, and bad to kill good i guess. Thet's why you get to fight templars and netherworlders at the same time.
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Zargata
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:15 pm

I have found that the levels make all the difference. If you power level a single unit early on, and keep it about 5ish or more levels ahead of enemy units it will be chaotic and fast. Weaker teams, always end up lawful.

But I am sure it's way more complex than that.
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Max Magnus
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:52 am

The basic system, from what I can tell/remember from a huge post on the OOOLLLDDD Ogre Battle 64 board, was that...

A unit will gain alignment if they kill a unit with lower alignment then itself (Thus, sometimes a SUPER Lawful Paladin STILL gains Alignment from killing a Paladin), and vice-versa. Basically kill units more choatic then you makes you lawful and vice-versa.

A unit that defeats weaker opponents becomes choatic and vice-versa.

You're right that the unit will equalize it's alignments over time.

That's pretty much it. After a few playthroughs I got tired of micro-managing alignments (especially Neutral guys) that I simply abuse the 255 item glitch to my heart's content for alignment-related purposes. I also find it makes for more interesting team comps.
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Muliciber
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:10 am

Max Magnus wrote:
That's pretty much it. After a few playthroughs I got tired of micro-managing alignments (especially Neutral guys) that I simply abuse the 255 item glitch to my heart's content for alignment-related purposes. I also find it makes for more interesting team comps.

This is what I do now, lest I end up with a team of only paladins and swordmasters.
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marjin
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Chaos units in this game (assuming you are making them legitimately) require a bit of planning. Usually 3 out of my ten units are polarized chaotic (meaning zero average alignment); which I had to start pushing down that path at the beginning of the game.

Essentially you need to decide when you start a new game what you want the final character composition of your chaos unit(s) will be. I'll give you and example of one I usually run. Let's say I eventually want a unit with three black knights, a lich, and a ninja master. I will cobble together a unit of three beastmasters/berzerkers, a witch, and a ninja ASAP. Usually you can have this put together by mission three if you abuse training, which leads me to my next point; train your future chaos units up much higher than theoretically needed for the next mission. I recommend at least two levels above the enemy unit leaders (I personally do three, as the wider the level gap the increased likelihood of alignment drop from beating up lower level units).

So you now have your future chaos unit overlevelled and ready for combat, however there is one last, and somewhat tricky step. Early on you need to be judicious at what unit compositions they attack, only allow them to battle high alignment units! Go after knights, valkyries, faeries, gryphons, clerics, etc. Basically anyone who leans lawful on the Alignment scale. Avoid combat with low alignment units! This step is a pain, but you will probably have to keep this up throughout chapter one and well into chapter two before this unit becomes "polarized," a term I use for units that have an average alignment at either 0 or 100. Once they get to that stage, they will stay there until you decide to switch them around and participate in mission combat with lawful characters (which you will have little reason to do so).

Finally, I don't know for certain if I can confirm it or not, but supposedly the unit's battle strategy may affect alignment. While I don't think it is as crucial as having a higher level or attacking a unit who's average alignment is opposite of yours, it never hurts to be on the safe side. So for chaos units you are grooming, try "Attack Weakest" and "Attack Strongest" for lawful units. Again, I cannot confirm if this does anything or not, but I do it anyway to be sure.
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Muliciber
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:36 pm

marjin wrote:
Finally, I don't know for certain if I can confirm it or not, but supposedly the unit's battle strategy may affect alignment. While I don't think it is as crucial as having a higher level or attacking a unit who's average alignment is opposite of yours, it never hurts to be on the safe side. So for chaos units you are grooming, try "Attack Weakest" and "Attack Strongest" for lawful units. Again, I cannot confirm if this does anything or not, but I do it anyway to be sure.

I was told that hunting down leaderless unit would result in a net loss of alignment, but had no real proof it actually did.
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marjin
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:36 pm

Muliciber wrote:
I was told that hunting down leaderless unit would result in a net loss of alignment, but had no real proof it actually did.

Chasing down leaderless units does not affect unit alignment or Chaos Frame. Only the alignment difference between your characters and the characters they kill.
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Tobyus
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:10 am

Teams with Clerics want to be good. Usually if you build a killer team with a Cleric healing everyone all the time, they tend to become lawful. If you want to help them become lawful, try not to use that team to go after teams you've already wounded and are leaderless. Use teams that have the guys that are supposed to be Chaotic to go clean up the garbage.

I will burn through a whole game with almost all Lawful guys. Maybe like one or two teams are Chaotic. You can find characters in the game that are really Chaotic, like Pumpkin Heads for example. Putting those things on a team will help make it Chaotic.
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Necronium
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PostSubject: Re: Character Alignment   Thu May 31, 2012 9:51 am

i can usually manage my chaotic units pretty well. Just load up on ghosts in the early game. they will start dropping alignment from your other classes quick. The hardest for me is keeping a neutral unit. That for me is simply the hardest thing to do for how i play. Basically i result in having to use a unit that A) I built from rejected classes after i got a new special character, or B) A unit that i never use for anything other than going to neutral aligned towns
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